that has to be a pretty powerful case
for for
intervening it's quite surreal actually
listening to Neil at the news wall that
this is a country that we're told is
virtually bankrupt our country that we
have to charge our children 9,000 a year
to go to university that we're laying
off hundreds of thousands of people in
the public sector because we can't pay
their bills we're told over and over
again by the same government that is
spending £40,000 a night on hotels
hotels for Pilots £40,000 a night for
hotels for Pilots to bomb someone else's
country when our pensioners in the
winter time are going shivering cold
it's surreal but the argument as with
the argument yesterday on vaccines is
that still in the world Britain is a
relatively rich country and shouldn't
stand idly by feel relatively Rich if it
can step in stop feel relatively Rich if
you're one of the children paying the
£99,000 a year in order to be taught at
University or you're one of the people
who's suffering the cuts or losing your
job but that's not my only argument you
have the logic is overwhelming you have
made it clear already in the first five
minutes of this show this is a stalemate
an expensively produced stalemate and
we're either going to have to pay vastly
more to change that stalemate or huckle
down for what the Admiral called a Siege
and uh do the British people really want
what I'm asking you is is the basic the
basic point of of the military
commitment at the time you've heard uh
that you know had there not been an
intervention there would have been a
massacre in Tripoli a lot of people
would have been killed I don't accept at
all and neither does the government
because there are massacres going on
elsewhere in the same very very same
region at which we don't lift a finger
to intervene we're not going to invade
or occupy or bomb Syria we had no
intention of stopping Israel bombarding
Gaza the Yemen thousands of people have
been killed in the Yemen okay so why the
difference for Libya the difference is
because Libya is only a 5 million
population yet up to now nearly 13,000
have been killed over 50,000 have been
injured hundreds and hundreds of cases
of gang rape yet in Tunisia which is
twice the population only 300 killed in
Egypt which is 15 times the population
of Libya only 400 killed Syria is six
times the population of Libya only 1300
killed I'm not condoning the killings in
other countries even one life lost in
Syria or Egypt or Tunisia is not
acceptable but in Libya it's a totally
different case this is a mad despot who
is out of control intent on killing half
of his population just to hold on to
power the question is did we want to
allow another Rwanda in North Africa or
did we want to interfere as an
international and legal and moral
obligation to protect the whole
population called the Lipan people that
is really the question no but there are
mad despots everywhere and Britain
Britain is a I wouldn't mind I know you
wouldn't mind but it's us that's being
asked to bomb them it's us that's paying
for the International Community it's 34
countries Britain it's costing Britain
38 million a week we are grateful for
that but Britain is not paying for the
whole campaign it's an international
campign speak please let me speak this
is my country and it's my Air Force it's
my country as well it's my is it yeahia
was your country yeah I'm a British
citizen as well oh okay well we've
cleared that up yes it's my country
that's being asked to spend £38 million
a week and I pay taxes
billion by theut toomb what used to be
your country
whilst well make up your mind okay hang
on stay on the substantive issue other
desports are killing their people in
large numbers we're not being asked to
neither will we bomb and spend 38
million a week bombing them so the
question is why are we doing it for his
former country stroke now country and
the answer is obvious it's our oil
interests that have fastened our
attention on Libya not because Gaddafi
was a desport when I was calling him a
deso Adam Tony Blair was kissing him in
a tent in the desert I was there but
anyway but let's put that argum that
this is in fact because uh the West NATO
is interested in Libyan oil in the long
run well this is a this is a very
well-known cliche which George and
others try to put across all the time
yes Libya happens to be an oil country
but that's not the reason the reason is
because Gaddafi decided to kill as many
as POS libyans as possible to hold on to
power and if the International Community
and Britain is playing part of that but
is not wholly responsible in charge of
the campaign if they did not intervene
then we would have had a huge Massac you
you said you believe 13,000 people have
been killed how many of those have been
killed by the rebels and by the NATO
operation no no the rebels don't what
you call Rebels the Freedom Fighters
don't kill our own people these are the
rebels don't have missiles
they they must it hasn't all been one
way has it I mean this is a war that's
going on yes the Freedom Fighters have
killed some of the people fighting on
Gaddafi's side but these are soldiers
and officers using multi rocket
launchers and tanks and and and
artillery obviously this is a war but
killing civilians the only one who's
doing that is Gaddafi and his security
brid want to ask you both briefly a
final question I know you're going to
disagree George Galloway where is this
going to end in your view and the
partition of the country with the
Gaddafi the dictators crew hanging on to
the western part and the Stooges of
international uh Imperial power
governing in Benghazi this is going to
end on Gaddafi and his sons being
squeezed out by the Libyan people mainly
with the help of the International
Community can I finish please this is
not the House of Commons please don't
Hackle me George okay meckling you
squeezed out by the before the end of
the summer hopefully and then the Libyan
people will craft a constitution and
have a democratic government and get on
with the business of rebuilding Libya
which is much better Democratic with
proper development and in good relations
with the rest of the world the the
totally the opposite of The Nightmare of
the last 42 years in Libya under Gaddafi
if that happened it'd be worth having
wouldn't it yes if the libyans could
have overthrown Gaddafi themselves
nobody would be happier than me don't
ask me to pay for it we will leave it on
that note of agreement thank you both
very much